I have gone back to the drawing board in trying to formulate a starting point for a clone Mack’s or Mack and Manco pizza.
I have thought about the longer ferment and what I might try to possibly get better results. I looked though the New KitchenAid Dough Making Method starting at Reply #1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.0.html
I was going to keep my current formula, but go about making the dough in a different way for the first test.
I am striving for a final dough temperature of around 65 degrees F. I plan on just mixing the water and flour and then incorporating the IDY, salt, and then finally the oil later in the mix. Since scott r thought this dough might be a longer mix time, it got me thinking about how to go about the mix and then the longer ferment. The reasoning behind this is, if I am trying to stimulate what Mack’s might be doing to get a longer ferment, this might be something they are doing, in the heat and humidity of Wildwood or one of Mack's or Mack & Manco pizza businesses.
I don’t want to try sugar at this point in the experiment.
I might need to go back to the drawing board many times.
Flour (100%): 1559.77 g | 55.02 oz | 3.44 lbs
Water (60%): 935.86 g | 33.01 oz | 2.06 lbs
IDY (0.20%): 3.12 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.04 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
Salt (1.75%): 27.3 g | 0.96 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.69 tsp | 1.9 tbsp
Olive Oil (2.5%): 38.99 g | 1.38 oz | 0.09 lbs | 8.67 tsp | 2.89 tbsp
Total (164.45%): 2565.05 g | 90.48 oz | 5.65 lbs | TF = 0.09
Single Ball: 513.01 g | 18.1 oz | 1.13 lbs
A popular song you always hear in Wildwood. “Wildwood Days” by: Bobby Rydell
Wildwood is famous for their tram cars, that transport people from one end of the boardwalk to the other, if you get to tired to walk or want to sightsee. If you ever visit Wildwood, you will never forget the tram cars. It is always, “Watch the Tram car, please”. You always need to get out of their way. The constant “Watch the Tram car, please can get on your nerves.
Since I like History, this is how the tram car started.
View from Mack’s pizza, boardwalk and wide and long beaches. They rake their beaches everyday.
These videos can give someone that has never been to Wildwood a feel for what it is like.
Mack and Manco in Ocean City..you can just see the how big the place their places might be.
Steve brought the Gangi Supreme with basil to market. We both tasted the sauce right out of the can. Since I had also tasted the Full Red right out of the can, I didn’t like the taste of the Gangi near as much. We had to add water to the Gangi to get as near as we thought would be the consistency of Mack’s sauce. We then decided the sauce needed a extra kick, so we added ½ tsp. sugar and 1/4 tsp. garlic powder. This was added to 18 oz. of the Gangi sauce. We put 18 oz. of Gangi sauce in the cake decorating kit to apply the sauce. Of course some of the sauce stuck to the bag of the cake decorating kit and not all was applied to the pizza.
We used 12 oz. of mild white cheddar that was grated with the Pelican Head. When I had grated the cheese on Monday, it had seemed to coarse, so I put it though the grater, again.
While we were making the pizza, I was anxious to try the finished product. I kept smelling to see if I could detect the smell of Mack’s pizza, but I couldn’t.
I should have applied more sauce to the edges.
This dough was very easy to open and it could be twirled many times in the air. Although I am not a professional twirler like Mack’s piemen, I had fun twirling the dough. The dough didn’t tear, after repeatedly throwing into the air. Steve commented that you could keep stretching this dough almost forever.
Although the cheese was gooey, runny and did have a lot of grease like Mack’s pizza, in my opinion the taste of the cheddar wasn’t strong enough. Wonder what kind of cheddar cheese Mack’s uses.
When Steve and I tasted the finished pizza the Gangi sauce in baked pizza did taste like Mack’s pizza in my opinion.
I gave Steve a dough ball and froze the other two to experiment with.
I was talking to Steve about wondering since I am now making pizza, if this pizza isn’t a fantasy in my mind because it was my favorite pizza for so many years. I will have to wait and see if I get to taste the real Mack’s pizza, if this just stuck in my mind for so many years or if it is something that is still special to me. Steve and I both enjoyed the gooey, runny, greasy cheese.
At least I didn't have the problems of the peel not being the right size and the pizza sticking to the stone today. The stars are getting better.
Peter (Pete-zza) thought of a creative idea to use a squeeze bottle to apply the sauce like Mack’s does with a hose.
Thank you again for being creative and thinking of using a plastic squeeze bottle to simulate a “hose”, in applying the sauce. I have two squeeze bottles at market and will measure the diameter of the tip. Your idea is great!
Peter (Pete-zza) tried out his formula.
Curiosity got the better of me so I decided to conduct a couple of experiments to make a Mack’s basic cheese pizza even though I have never had a Mack’s pizza.
My first attempt was to see if I could make a robust Mack’s clone dough for a 14” pizza using all-purpose flour. I have made robust all-purpose doughs before that handled like the doughs in the YouTube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs4h5Gr_GKc but not with any consistency. I managed to make a pizza with the dough but thought that the finished crust was only so-so from a flavor and texture standpoint and that it was perhaps unlikely that Mack’s uses all-purpose flour.
My next effort was to make a dough using the King Arthur bread flour (KABF) as supplemented with Hodgson Mill vital wheat gluten (VWG) to achieve an effective protein content for the blend of 14.4%, which is a bit more than the 14.2% protein content of the King Arthur Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour. To do the allocation, I used November’s Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://tools.foodsim.com/. For this effort, I assumed that a Mack’s pizza is an 18” pizza. So I decided to make a dough ball for that size. I elected to use a 21-ounce dough ball, which translates to a thickness factor of 0.082525. I will have more to say about the thickness factor later.
The dough formulation I decided to use is the following one, based on the expanded dough calculating tool at
KABF/VWG Blend* (100%):
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (3%):
370.47 g | 13.07 oz | 0.82 lbs
214.87 g | 7.58 oz | 0.47 lbs
0.82 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.27 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
7.41 g | 0.26 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
11.11 g | 0.39 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.45 tsp | 0.82 tbsp
5.56 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.39 tsp | 0.46 tbsp
610.23 g | 21.52 oz | 1.35 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: For a 21-ounce dough ball for a single 18” pizza (with a corresponding thickness factor of 0.082525); bowl residue compensation = 2.5%.
*The KABF/VWG Blend comprises 358.79 grams (12.66 ounces) KABF and 11.69 grams (0.41 ounces) Hodgson Mill VWG (about 3.9 teaspoons)
Second attempt at a Mack’s pizza 5/02/2010
Steve and I made the Mack’s clone pie. We used a plastic ketchup bottle to simulate the hose and cut off part of the tip. Steve dressed the pie and put it into the oven. Both of us were anxious to taste it. I had Steve taste the mild white cheddar, sharp white cheddar and also the X-sharp white cheddar. He also couldn’t distinguish much difference in the sharp white cheddar. Half the pie was dressed with sharp white cheddar and half was dressed with a blend of sharp white cheddar and X-sharp cheddar.
When the pie was finished baking it sure smelled like a Mack’s pie. I told Steve this is what it always smells like outside and inside Mack’s Pizza. The pie dressed with the State Brand sharp white cheddar did taste like a Mack’s pizza. It also had the runny, gooey cheese. Steve said he also enjoyed the taste of the cheese. We both couldn’t believe the this pie would only be made with white cheddar. It really looked like mozzarella cheese after the pie was baked.
Since RoadPizza and Steve wanted me to post this video..I am crazy enough to post it, all for the sake of pizza making, just to show how robust this Mack’s dough is. Although I can’t really throw the dough like Mack’s pie men, this will give anyone an idea of how this dough performs. I stepped outside my pizza stand, because I have a raised floor and if I tried to do this inside my stand the dough would hit the overhead light. I wanted to try and throw this dough at the highest height I could get it.
This video is sideways because that is the way Steve took it. I don’t know how to straighten it out.
I would really need a lot of practice to throw this dough better.
Okay RoadPizza and Steve...this one is for both of you..LOL
There are so many variables that go into making a PIZZA. The hydration of the dough, flour, yeast and many more.. Amounts of any kind of yeast in a pizza can make a big difference. Most recipes posted on the web, use too much yeast in their recipes. What I have found out so far, is either bulk fermenting the dough or cold fermenting the dough will give a better flavor in the crust. I am still experimenting to find different flavors in the crust of pies. In my opinion pizza is all about the best flavor you can achieve in a crust. I still am on the journey about flavors in the crust. Even differences in temperatures in you home or times of the year can influence how much yeast to use. If you want a pizza to develop flavors in the crust, there are many ways to go about achieving this.
Adventure in Pizza Making
There are many ways to go about trying to make any kind of pizzas you want to create. PIZZA making is fun and also you get to eat your finished product. I learned to make all my pizza on http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php If you look on pizzamaking.com you can see all the beautiful creations of pizzas members make on this site. Members and moderators help members and guests achieve almost any kind of pizzas they want to create. Since joining this site, my pizza making skills have gone from non-existent to something much better. I invite you to take a look at this site.