There are so many variables that go into making a PIZZA. The hydration of the dough, flour, yeast and many more.. Amounts of any kind of yeast in a pizza can make a big difference. Most recipes posted on the web, use too much yeast in their recipes. What I have found out so far, is either bulk fermenting the dough or cold fermenting the dough will give a better flavor in the crust. I am still experimenting to find different flavors in the crust of pies. In my opinion pizza is all about the best flavor you can achieve in a crust. I still am on the journey about flavors in the crust. Even differences in temperatures in you home or times of the year can influence how much yeast to use. If you want a pizza to develop flavors in the crust, there are many ways to go about achieving this.


Preferment for Lehmann Dough Pizzas

Crust of Pizza

Crust of Pizza
Rim of Preferment Lehmann Formula

Adventure in Pizza Making

There are many ways to go about trying to make any kind of pizzas you want to create. PIZZA making is fun and also you get to eat your finished product. I learned to make all my pizza on http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php If you look on pizzamaking.com you can see all the beautiful creations of pizzas members make on this site. Members and moderators help members and guests achieve almost any kind of pizzas they want to create. Since joining this site, my pizza making skills have gone from non-existent to something much better. I invite you to take a look at this site.

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Sicilian Pizza

Sicilian Pizza
Sicilian Pizza with Preferment for Lehmann Dough

At my mom's home getting ready to bake in her gas oven

At my mom's home getting ready to bake in her gas oven
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Friday, November 26, 2010

Good Discussions of What Happens in Pizza Dough for Oven Spring

Jackie Tran (Chau a great pizza experimenter and pizza maker on pizzamaking.com) and I were discussing how open spring might develop and what all goes into creating oven spring on my thread about the Preferment Lehmann dough I use at market.  It had always intriqued me what all goes into oven spring and what causes the greatest oven spring.  I have been trying to study all the doughs I have made and have been watching what happens when the pizza is put into the oven.  When I first started making pizzas, I sure didn’t have much oven spring (holes in the crumb of a pizza) in the crumb or rim of a pizza.  I have learned over the time I have been making pizzas to develop more oven spring.  I still don’t have the oven spring that some members on pizzamaking.com do, but I am still learning.  

After Chau and I were discussing oven spring, Peter (Pete-zza) had commented as can be seen below.  If you want to read more you can go to pizzamaking.com and look under Preferment for the Lehmann dough.  Below is where Peter talks about rise in the dough or oven spring.

Re: Preferment for Lehmann NY Style Pizza Reply #515


Your recent discussions with Jackie Chan prompted me to think about the types of factors that appear to govern or to be implicated in oven spring and, in general, an overall rise in a dough skin. I don’t know that I can distinguish on a technical basis the difference between oven spring and an overall rise in a dough skin other than to note that oven spring tends to be more often associated and discussed in relation to the rim of a pizza.

These are the factors that come to mind that appear to be involved in oven spring or dough rise in general in respect of a typical home oven setting, although most of the factors apply to many other oven types also:

1. The type/brand of flour, including its protein content and gluten formation characteristics, and whether the flour is bromated or not.
2. The moisture content (hydration) of the dough.
3. The amount and type of yeast used (Note: Cook’s Illustrated says that fresh yeast produces the most gas during fermentation).
4. Other ingredients added to the dough that can affect its volume expansion, including oil, vital wheat gluten (see, for example, http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/vital-wheat-gluten-16-oz) and dry milk powder (e.g., see http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-special-dry-milk-16-oz). (Note: There are other additives and conditioners that are used by professional/commercial bakers to accomplish similar functions but these are outside the purview of this list).
5. Water quality (mainly mineral content/hardness).
6. Mixing and kneading and related methods (including autolyse), whether by machine or by hand, that can affect the viscosity and density of the dough, including the capacity of the dough to capture and retain gases of fermentation (for a discussion of these latter factors, see the section “Fermentation Control” at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm).
7. The type of pizza stone/tiles/firebricks or other carrier used to bake the pizza, including pizza screen, pan or disk (perforated or nonperforated), and the material (including any coating) of such carrier.
8. The oven configuration, including the type of oven (e.g., electric or gas, and with or without a convection feature) and the oven rack position used during baking.
9. Other devices used in the oven during baking, such as secondary pizza stones/tiles/firebricks or metal pans/skillets or their equivalent.
10. Oven temperature as related to the temperature of the pizza stone or other carrier and any other devices under paragraph 9.
11. Fermentation condition of the dough at the time of use (e.g., from underfermented to overfermented/overproofed).
12. Dough temper factors, including temper time and temperature (this can be considered an extension of paragraph 11).
13. Dough shaping methods, including the way the rim is formed and gases are distributed in the skin.
14. Whether a formed skin is allowed to proof/rise before dressing and baking.
15. The size of the skin, its thickness, and the number, types and amounts of sauce, cheese and toppings.
16. The relationship and balance between dough pH and residual sugar at the time of baking (see the Calvel discussion at Reply 136 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg86732/topicseen.html#msg86732). (Note: This factor is likely to be influenced by whether a starter/preferment--natural or based on commercial yeast--is used.)

Arguably, one can optimize the above factors in any given case, or, more likely, one might try to optimize a subset of the above factors based on the materials and equipment on hand, and make a sufficient number of doughs/pizzas under essentially identical conditions (or as similar as possible) to confirm the factors that produced the desired oven spring and related results. It would be nice to test each of the above factors one at a time, changing only one variable at a time, but that would be impractical in a nonscientific home setting that is subject to many variables. It would also consume an inordinate amount of time to conduct all the tests.

In your case with the Lehmann preferment dough, obviously not all of the above enumerated factors apply nor have you necessarily attempted to optimize those that did apply although what you have done strikes me as being quite normal and reasonable. However, while I believe that trying to optimize the factors that do apply is a reasonable thing to do, if I were to single out a few of the factors that I think are most dominant, I would pick oven temperature and, more particularly, an oven temperature that achieves a combination of top heat and bottom heat sufficient to create good oven spring but without burning anything. I believe you get that inherently at market with your commercial deck oven--with good heat retention characteristics of your oven stone and a small overhead space--and I believe you achieved similar conditions with your grill setup, with a small, rather confined space and sometimes at higher temperatures than you use at market.

Although you have noted the limitations of your home oven, I believe other members have achieved good oven spring in a home oven setting, as noted by the links referenced in Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10122.msg88410.html#msg88410. Note, in particular, the long knead times that ThunderStik uses, without any apparent ill effects on oven spring. Obviously, other factors have to complement the oven conditions, such as having a properly prepared and managed dough (preferably using a high-protein flour and a moisture content conducive to ample steam creation during baking), but in your case you have demonstrated that you are able to manage the various factors involved and to achieve the proper balance between them to achieve very good end results.


I believe this is a great list of things that can all have to do with oven spring.  I want to study all of this more in my experiments.  I also want to try fresh yeast at some point to try and make pizza dough.  I can buy it from my distributor that sells flour, but I would have to purchase it in 24 1 lb. blocks. Fresh yeast isn’t that expensive, but I will see if I can purchase some to experiment with from a local bakery first.  Since fresh yeast is supposed to create the most gas during fermentation, I would think, the pizza crusts would taste better, but I don’t know at this point. Fresh yeast only lasts about two weeks.  My distributor told me today that some customers freeze cake yeast, but they don’t recommend it.


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